Hi,I have a Vintage Walther PP 7.65mm pistol that I recently bought and I'm interested in learning more about it. From what I've already been able to obtain from searching this site and looking at the serial number chart this gun should be dated around 1942. I noticed something strange about the gun though in that it doesn't display any of the engraving on the gun slide. It is virtually unengraved in that it doesn't even have the walther name on it anywhere except on the plastic grips and on one side of the magazine. This struck me as strange because all the ones I've ever seen had something on the slide.
I am going to attempt to upload some pics of the gun for inspection. Any information you can give me about this piece will be greatly appreciated. The serial number can be seen on the side of the grip and on the right side of the slide. There is a mark on the bolt and under the bolt just under the ejection port. These I believe are the same, but I haven't been able to look at them close enough to be sure.
I am not able to post pictures right now but will upload them in the morning when I get to my computer. Thanks Ron for your analysis. I really like the gun, it is very tight and has good action. Very very smooth. I've never seen one without any engraving on it at all, so this would certainly explain why.
For a gun being made on the way out it sure is a good gun though. Sure the engraved ones are nice, but this one has alot of character. Any other opinions are certainly welcome. I will be posting pics soon of an old Damascus Barrel estate shotgun I bought that I haven't alot of information about. It is German though so it will be interesting to learn more about it. My sources date that pistol to late 1944, so it was late, but not one of the last wartime pistols. It does, however, date to a period when the German military was taking all Walther PP production so the commercial marking was dropped entirely and only the Walther code 'ac' was stamped on the slide.
Even so, the proof marks are commercial, not military, as they would be if the gun was made under a military contract rather than simply bought under a purchase order.Just FWIW, the commercial Walther markings (banner, address-model-caliber) on those small pistols were not stamped or roll stamped, they were etched. The serial number and 'ac' on the OP's pistol were stamped.Jim.
I quit making even WAGs on values of Nazi-era German pistols. Every time I give a figure based on what I see at gun shows and on the net, someone informs me (with a pitying tone) that a gun I said was worth $500 is really worth $20 million because it was rumored that it possibly perhaps maybe had been handled at some time by someone related maybe to Hitler's seventh cousin fourteen times removed and when will stupid people like me learn about the real world?I do wonder if the over-the-top guesstimators ever get those fancy figures for their guns.Jim.
I was also thinking 500 but like Jim, I now try and stay away from values. On the dates, Marschall lists ac 356450P as the last for 1944, this is why i stated 44/45.
It could also have been made earlier and not stamped and pushed out the door until 1945. Regardless it was one of the last batches made in the final months before before the bell rang. Because it was made at the final destruction of the Third Reich I feel it has historical value.
Don't know, but it is part of the last chapter. Perhaps, but the information I have seen does not support the idea that 'most' ac-marked Walthers were assembled post-war by GIs.
Mismatched ones might have been but information I have seen indicates that the 'ac' markings began in mid to late 1944, quite a while before U.S. Forces reached the Zella-Mehlis area. It would appear probable that the change of marking was just another means of speeding production at what would have been a critical time for Germany and, with the military taking all the guns that could be produced, there was no need for the normal and time consuming slide markings. 'ac' said it all with regard to the maker, and there was no need for a caliber marking since the German military pistols were made only in 7.65.Jim.The Firearms Forum is on online community for all gun enthusiasts. Join us to discuss firearms of all kinds, gun accessories, legal issues and more.
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Hey everyone,My dad told me about my Grandfather's walther that he brought back from WWII that he took off a German soldier. I was wondering if there are some good databases out there where I could look up the history of the pistol? Any info is appreciated.All I know is that the slide is longer than the modern day PPK and the caliber was not printed anywhere on the pistol itself.
Hopefully one day I'll get to see and shoot it.Quick question on older firearms. Is modern day ammo safe to use in them and for the PP/PPK series of pistols, do current magazines fit in them?Thanks again. Click to expand.You had better check your soures again. Both the PP u. PPK went into the 900,000 range and then, in about 1940, started over with a letter (P or K) after the ser nr. By wars end they were, I believe, again in the 400,000 range with the letter.You left out one caliber for both pistols - 6.35mm (25acp). Many more 7.65 (32acp) pistols were made than the other 3 calibers combined.Thus the 7.65 PP is not at all rare, or even uncommon.
The PPK is a bit more so, but still not rare.Sarge. Click to expand.My GF, a French model whom I met on the internet, assures me that they can't put anything on the internet that isn't true. grinRespectfully, Sarge.My source was posted, take it for what it is. My source for much of my info on PP u.
PPK pistols is James Rankins 3 vol set on Walther pistols. I think he gives a lot more detail than Gangarosa. In fact I don't find a copy of his book in my library for some reason.Well I had thought it was the PPK that started at 750K, but even if they both did there is still 250K+ pistols before the 2nd series = letter after the nr, started since PPKs are known into the 1 Million range.Then from the 100,000 P u. K 2nd series they went into the high 400K range which is another 300,000+ pistols for a total of 750,000+ pistols of both types.I made no claim that all production of either pistol was strictly for the military. There were undoubtably more made for civilian and paramilitary sales than for the military.Does Gangarosa claim that only 83,000 were made for the military?
Sure does seem like a low nr since guns with WaA show up with some regularity.Sarge. Click to expand.Here's my story. My grandfather came back from the war and was bummed about not being able to bring back anything. His cousin was able to bring back a Walther PP and gave to grandpa. Now I am 'borrowing it.'
I took it to a gun shop to see if they could tell me anything about it. All of the numbers match. There is the Nazi eagle, but without the swastika.
So it was made before the war (I was told). The shop told me that after the US leveled the factory and took over in various places, the US started putting together firearms with whatever parts they could find. He said that it is harder to find the PP/PPK's with all matching numbers. He said normal value would be around $600-700 or so, but because of these details (and the excellent condition), it was closer to $1000 for a replacement value. Not looking at selling, but I was curious. Mine shoots the 32acp.
It shoots fine other than sometimes it will double fire with a single trigger pull. As soon as the slide racks back into place, the round in waiting will fire. Does anyone know if those firing pins are free floating and I am possibly having a 'slam fire' of sorts?If you are interested, watch the youtube video on how to disassemble the PP.
Walther Pp 5 Digit Serial Number
Me thinks your gun shop is full of it! Sounds like their knowlege of Walthers is about equal to that of the average 3rd grader.If the eagle you are talking about is on the bbl in the ejection port and on the slide below it then there should be an N under the eagles. That is the commercial firing proof. And Yes the gun is wartime since the change from crown N to eagle N came in 1940.The US did Not level the factory! The ruskies did post war.The Germans had begun to assemble mismatched pistols at the very end of the war. Those will have poor finish, wood grips and no slide markings.
Those pistols are very uncommon.I would guestimate that 95% of all Walther PP u. PPK pistols have matching numbers.
Walther P99 Serial Number Chart
Walther Serial Number Chart P99
Except for those made late in the war any Walther that is mismatched was one done by someone post war.As for the double fire I would guess that the firing pin spg might be broken. An easy fix as parts are available.Sarge.